Sarojini Sahoo: A Fiction Writer and Trendsetter of Feminism in
Contemporary Oriya Literature
Literary Interview by Capt. Dr. Arvind Nawale
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Sarojini Sahoo: Born in a small town of Dhenkanal in Orissa (India),
married to Mr.Jagadish Mohanty a veteran writer of Orissa, Sarojini Sahoo, is a
prime figure and trendsetter of feminism in contemporary Oriya literature. For
her; feminism is not a gender problem or any confrontational attack on male
hegemony. So, it is quite different from that of Virginia Woolf or Judith Butler.
Her fictions always project a feminine sensibility from puberty to menopause.
In English, one novel and two anthologies of short stories have been published
to her credit. Bengali translation of two of her novels have been published
from Bangladesh. In Oriya, there are eight short stories collections and eight
novels in published form to her credit. Two of her novels and one of her short
stories collection have been published in Hindi and one novel in Malayalam.
Recently AuthorsPress has published her English essays collection Sensible
Sensuality. She has been conferred with the Orissa Sahitya Academy Award, 1993,
the Jhankar Award, 1992, the Bhubaneswar Book Fair Award and the Prajatantra
Award. She has published eight anthologies of short stories and five novels.
Delhi Doordarshan, the National Channel of India has featured her life style
and creations in its special tele-serial ‘Literary Postcard’. Recently, she has
been enlisted among 25 exceptional women of India by the Kindle magazine of
Kolkata.
Email: sarojalin@gmail.com, sarojinisahoo2003@yahoo.co.in
*The present interview is published in my book Feminine Fragrance ISBN
978-93-81030-28-8. GNOSIS, NEW DELHI
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AMN: Welcome, Sarojiniji. Please tell us a bit about yourself.
SS: Very politely, I have to
say, I am not such a personality, that you would ask me to introduce myself. I
have very few words stored in favour of mine to introduce. I write fictions
mostly and poems sometimes. I write both in Oriya and English. But I prefer to
write my creative stuff in my mother tongue because basically I think one can
express one’s emotions truly in one’s mother tongue only. But I do write my
essays in English, because I feel comfortable in that way. It is interesting
that in Oriya, I don’t prefer to write essays and all my articles are written
in English. I am a columnist, a blogger and some critics mentioned me as a
feminist. But I don’t know whether I am a feminist or not, because ‘feminism’
in current days has become an umbrella term and to be a female writer, now it
seems, is the only criteria to pronounce herself as feminist. It is pleasurable
to note that the term ‘feminist’ is not considered insulting nowadays as it was
in the time of 80’s. But the radical
feminist and preferably the western feminists do not concur with my ideas of
feminism. It is interesting that some critics name me as Simone de Beauvoir of
India, where I find opposite to Simone’s ‘others’ theory and in my various
essays I have described how I differ the great philosopher. I think, feminism
should not be a stereotyped hysterical man-hating fanatics, but should be a
broad social movement striving for the equality of each individual worldwide.
It should emphasize our femininity rather to impose the self-styled classified
feministic attitude of the second wave.
AMN: As a child, what did you
want to be when you grew up?
SS: As a child I never thought myself to be a writer rather in before
my teen days I had a wish to become a ‘detective’ because at that time I was a
voracious reader of famous detective novels. In my teen days I wanted to be a
lawyer but it is an irony that though I possess an LLB degree and I have
license, I didn’t become a lawyer till date.
AMN: Your prominent publications in general?
SS: In Oriya I have ten
published novels and eight published anthologies of short stories. I have one
collection of essays in English titled Sensible Sensuality. One of my
well-known Oriya novel Gambhiri Ghar has been translated into English and
published from India under the title The Dark Abode (2008) and published from
Bangladesh in Bengali as Mithya Gerosthali ( 2007 ). Prameela K.P has
translated this novel into Malayalam and has been published as "Irunda
Koodaram" by Chintha Publishers, Thiruvanthapuram. In 2011, the Hindi
translation of the novel was published under the banner of Rajpal & Sons,
Delhi with title Band Kamra. Martina Fuchs has translated it into for German
and it is going to publish shortly. Another novel Pakhibas has been translated
in to Bengali and published from Bangladesh under the same title in 2009. This
novel has been translated into Hindi by Dinesh Kumar Mali and has been
published with same title by Yash Prakashan, Delhi in 2010. My short stories are translated into
English and anthologized in two collections: Sarojini Sahoo Stories (2006) and
Waiting for Manna (2008). One of my short stories collection in Hindi has also
been published by Rajpal & Sons, titled Rape Tatha Anya Kahaniyana (2010)
AMN: Okay. Why do you write?
SS: I write because when I write I am. I am myself. I create myself. I
express myself. Some part of me reaches out to the world and possibly touches
the world, and maybe a small ripple spreads.
AMN: I would like to know about your reaction on the talk of your being
a prime figure and trendsetter of feminism in contemporary Oriya literature.
SS: I don’t know whether I am a prime figure and trendsetter in
contemporary Oriya literature or not. I am a simple writer and I want to
express my agony and pathos as being a woman.
Few years ago, when a tele-documentary on me was made by Delhi
Doordarshan for their ‘Literary Postcard’ programme, after reading my stories, the Producer cum
Director Dr. Satti Khanna asked me why I am a feminist writer? He pointed out
that in most of my fictions; I have painted the women's issue. I told him that
time if I am a feminist that is because I am a woman. Later Cathy Nelson, a student of Orleans
University when prepared her project work on Simone and me, asked me,” I feel
Simone De Beauvoir may have gotten distracted.
Her allegiance and responsibility may have fallen toward Sartre and the
need to prove herself as the minority in a male dominated world and academic
field, as opposed to really understanding the other women around her. Whereas,
with you, I find that your work is very much grounded in the understanding of
women in general, rather than a specific part of women, such as Simone seemed
to get hung up on marriage and motherhood. These two things came to define her,
I think, through her work as 'not married' and 'without child' more so that the
average woman may have been defined by 'being married' and 'motherhood.' This seems ironic to me. Later, Linda Lowen,
the women’s guide of an American website asked me in an interview, “You are
known for pushing the envelope, openly discussing female sexuality in your
stories and novels in a way that hadn't been done before. Isn't that risky?”
I am not consciously trying to write feminist writings. What I want to
portray only the feelings of woman from her preschooler days to the post
menopausal days. I think, there are some feelings, intricate mental agony and
complexity which a man couldn’t feel any day and these should be discussed in
our fictions. I portray the feelings of a pregnant lady (Waiting for Manna:
Amrutara Pratikshare), hysteria (Burkha,Deshantari),fear of being miscarriage
(Sakal:The Morning) false pregnancy (Tarali Jauthiba Durga :The Melting Castle)
, agony of and annoyance of menopause (Damppatya:The Couple ), Lesbianism (Behind The Scene) .I
have also portray the shaking situation of a sixty years old lady, who is still
waiting for her menopause and in every month
her embarrassing situation when she find herself in bleeding (Aparanha
:The Afternoon).Even in my story Jahllad
(Butcher) I have told the story of an
infant who finds herself being raped by a caretaker servant.
You might have marked a typical shyness has been found in common women
writer's voice while relating the truth and exposing their inner self. Even their
weaknesses or love relations are also not expressed clearly in fear of social
scandal of their character. A typical womanish shyness prevents them to write
their actual feelings towards sex and love. This is not only due to any
restriction imposed by their family, but much time we find that an idea of
being a good girl pursues them to hide their own feelings and experiences. You
know in India the 'chastity' means a lot for a woman and it is always demanded
that a female should keep her 'chastity' pure and perfect. (It is another issue
that nobody asks a man for the purity and perfection of his chastity). In case
of poetry, one can hide herself with mystic metaphor or myth, but in fiction,
one has to open herself completely. So, it is difficult for a woman to write
any fiction sincerely hiding her experiences and reactions. I never find any
'inhibition' in relating reality while writing. Because while I write, I place
me alien from the otherworld. Writing for me is a muse, a monologue, a kind of
self-intercourse. I enter in to the chore of the character's self and find
where I am hiding there. I lift my self to the above, much more above from
those characters and open and tear and alter them as if I am re-dressing,
remaking my self. There is no place for the second or third person at that
time. Inhibitions are caused when you are aware of another's existence. When no
body is there and you are going to open yourself, to whom you would inhibit? Is
there any restriction, limitation, or shame to open anyone in front of one's
own self?
AMN: I agree with you but what exact kind of feminism you believe in
and glorify through your writing?
SS: For me, feminism is not a gender problem or any confrontational
attack on male hegemony so it is quite different from that of Virginia Woolf or
Judith Butler. I accept feminism as a
total entity of female-hood, which is completely separate from the man’s
world.To me, femininity (rather than feminism) has a wonderful power. In our de-gendered times, a really feminine
woman is a joy to behold and you can love and unleash your own unique yet
universal femininity. We are here for
gender sensitivity to proclaim the differences between men and woman with a
kind of pretence that we are all the same.
Too many women have been de-feminized by society. To be feminine is to know how to pay
attention to detail and people; to have people skills; and to know how to
connect to and work well with others.
There will be particular times and situations within which you'll want
to be more in touch and in tune with your femininity than others. Being able to choose is a great privilege and
skill.
I think 'femininity' is the proper word to replace 'feminism,' because
the latter has lost its significance and identity due to its extensive
involvement with radical politics.
Femininity comes from the original Latin word femine which means
‘female’ or ‘women’ and certainly the word creates debatable identical
characteristics. It separates the female
mass from a masculine world with reference to gentleness, empathy, sensitivity,
nurturance, deference, self-abasement, and succorance. And patriarchy also sets the group alien from
them in their traditional milieu.
There are many more differences in theories among scientists,
anthropologists, and psychologist regarding the nature and behavior of the
female mass. Biologists believe the role
of our hormones, particularly sex hormones, and the structure of our
chromosomes are responsible for such a dichotomy in gender, though some queer
theorists and other postmodernists, however, have rejected the sex
(biology)/gender (culture) dichotomy as a “dangerous simplification.” Psychology, often influenced by patriarchy,
categorises women as different from the masculine world in certain behavioural,
emotional and logical areas. Social anthropologists deny the concept of biology
or psychology which keep women aside from the masculine world. Simone De Beauvoir’s saying “one is not born
a woman, but becomes one” impressed social anthropologists so much that they
create a different theory of feminine socialisation.
Here in my bloggings, I have constantly tried to analyse the ‘truth,’
as related by biologists and anthropologists.
What I think true to my sense and sensibility, I have expressed without
any hesitation. But still I don’t consider myself as a conformist because I
consider myself more a writer and as a writer, I think I am always a genderless
entity. In my opinion, a writer should
not have any gender. But still,
patriarchal society has prevailed; is there any possibility to have a
genderless society?
AMN: How your feminism is different from that of Virginia Woolf or
Judith Butler?
SS: Virginia Woolf′s Orlando- A Biography is an impressive field of
discussion on gender identity. Meditating about the notion of identity,
femininity, masculinity, and sexual desire, Orlando provides a light-hearted
account of Woolf′s own “theory of sexuality” that still captures the readers
attention. Inspired by the rise of ‘the new enterprise of sexology’ and the new
discipline of psychoanalysis as well as through her personal attraction towards
Sapphism, Woolf comments on the substance of sex, the nature of gender roles,
the role of clothes for gender identity and on sexual orientation in Orlando. In her novel, the protagonist feels he has
metamorphosed into a woman—the same person, with the same personality and
intellect, but in a woman's body. The concept of ‘right soul in a wrong body’
developed from this novel to which Judith Butler described those signs
or analytical models which dramatise incoherencies in the allegedly
stable relations between chromosomal sex, gender and sexual desire and named it
as ‘queer theory’. In my book Sensible
Sensuality, I discussed these gestures and showed how these are throwing out
powerful rhetoric of ‘thwarting the binary gender system’ means nothing if it
comes from somebody who hates the world, loses his or her confidence to face
life, and doesn't like himself or herself as a person. I can understand the
positions of intersexuals or transsexuals who are born with differed biological
bodies. There should be rational steps to make all feel comfortable and to mix
up everyone into the mainstream. What I
am against is the pop-culture clichés to express these feelings like “man
trapped in a woman's body” or “woman trapped in a man's body.”
AMN: What compels you to write on feminism?
SS: In my article ‘Bicycle & Me’ I have told that story. When I was
born, my father was not present beside my Mom. Finding my self a female baby,
my mother had a shock, because my father was expecting a son and my birth might
be the reason of her humiliation in future. My Mom told me later, she could not
sleep the night with fear of facing my father with a girl child. She was
praying all the night to God for changing my gender, but God did not pay
attention to her pathos cry and hence my Gender was not changed. But my father
is a strong headed man and he could not forget his sorrow of not becoming a
son’s father. This story compelled me to think about feminine mass. The second
experience of my childhood might be responsible to frame out my ideas of
feminism. As my father had an obsession for a male child, he wanted to see me
as a boy and therefore, I was dressed as a boy; my hair was cut like a boy’s;
and I used to play boyish games with boys instead of girlish games with girls.
But cross gender activities had no impact on my life and I stayed as a girl.
Later when I read Margaret Mead, Simone De Beauvoir I found a great gap between their theory and
my experiences. They have proclaimed that men and women were not a function of
their biological differences, rather, they resulted from differences in
socialisation and the cultural expectations held for each sex. From my
childhood experience, I observed the theory did not seem to true in my case.
This realization is also responsible to force me to write against the old
milieus of feminism.
AMN: Do you think women in India are still under the dominance of men?
SS: Yes. Female fetus killings are still prevailed in Indian society.
An unmarried daughter -- pronounced a spinster even in her late twenties --
brings shame upon her parents, and is a burden. But once married, she is
considered the property of her in-laws. In this context, un-wed mother,
separated, single or unfaithful women are considered outcasts. Living out of
wedlock with a partner is still virtually unheard of. During their marriage ,
the bride’s father has to pay dowries in the form of lots of money, furniture,
jewelry, and expensive household items and even homes and expensive foreign
holidays to the bride groom and still the phrase "bride burning" was
coined in India after several young brides had their saris lit on fire in front
of a gas stove either by their husbands or in-laws because of their father's failure
to meet demands for a bigger dowry .As there is custom and tradition of joint
family, a bride has to face her tyrannical in-laws and still traditional Hindu
society rejects divorcees. In case of sexuality, the active role of woman has
been always denied and it is considered that woman should not be open to their
sexual desires. For which you can find many of women have crossed their
menopausal stage without having a single orgasm in any day. In religious
rituals and customs also females are barred to take part in all worship. In
Kerala, females are not allowed to enter in the Ayeppa temples. They are also
barred to worship the God Hanuman and in some regions they are barred to even
touch the linga idol of Lord Shiva. In recent politics also though all political
parties have assured to reserve 33% of seats in legislation in their manifesto,
still it has not been transformed to law as the male dominant political parties
are opposing the bill. In financial matter, though women are allowed to work
out side, but their rights on any house hold matters always have been denied. A
woman has to take charge of the kitchen, even if she is a earning member and
she has to go out side for her job .The husband will not take charge of
kitchen, though he remains un employed, as it is supposed for a man to cook for
her family is against his manhood. Legally, though according to Court, sons and
daughters have equal rights on patriarchal property but still now as per
practice, ownership changes hands from father to husband to son and the role of
a daughter or a daughter in law is denied. So, how can you deny that women are
not under the dominance of men?
AMN: How you got the idea for your fascinating novels and short
stories. Where did the seed come from and how did you develop it?
SS: I never roam in search of a story nor I frame a story before
writing. The stories I have written usually come from the lives roaming around
me. A character or an event may strike me and I find a ‘story’ clicks. I start
writing and it is the motive force of the story that drags me to an end.
AMN: What’s your writing process like? Do you have set hours? Do you
think for a certain number of words or pages per day?
SS: I prefer to write in the afternoon hours. Summer season has been
proved a creative season for me, not for its attributes, but it provides me a
long holiday from my job. I try to write regularly but there are no fixed hours
reserved for my writings.
AMN: How you plan for your novels and short stories? Do you start with
a protagonist and then develop the plot as you write or you have the beginning,
middle and end all set in your mind before you start writing?
SS: I have told you earlier that all my novels are unplanned and I
never think about the conclusion. I believe my novels and short stories get
life during their creation and they lead their way to find a suitable
conclusion.
AMN: It’s wonderful. Okay. Your writing raised many controversies. May
I know what kind of criticism you want to have on your fictional writing?
SS: For many times, my writings have raised many controversies. But I
don’t bother for any criticism. I
expect, critics should read my writings thoroughly before writing.
AMN: At what point did you begin to think about writing a novel or
story?
SS: I started writing first in
our school magazine. My short story was published in a literary supplement of a
daily newspaper The Prajatantra, when I was a High school student. When I was a student of under graduate
classes, my stories had been published in The Jhankar. At that time the
magazine was very much reputed for its scholarly writings and only the scholars
of literature could get a place there.
Publishing in that magazine was considered at that time as the opening
door for recognition of poets and writers. My lecturers and teachers felt
amazed and appreciated me for my writings. Though I started my carrier as a
short story writer and for a good time I had been in those fields but that time
I had a 'phobia' for novel writing. After 90's onward, when I started writing my
first novel, I overcome this trepidation. Nowadays, I have been writing very
few short stories and all my creative times have been spent for novel writing.
You know, the novel has a huge landscape and the author has much more freedom
than the short story writer. You can emerge any idea any story plot in a novel.
Virginia Woolf's An Unwritten Novel could have been a short story. The total
time span of her novel Mrs. Dalloway is only one day. I think, like me Virginia
Woolf might have been emerged her story ideas and plots in her novels.
AMN: Have you read Anita Desai and Shobha De? Is there impact of them
on your writing?
SS: You may call it as my ignorance, but I haven’t read any of Shobha
Dey’s writings. But Anita Desai is no doubt a powerful writer of our age. She may be considered as real successor of
R.K.Narayan. But in my writings, I can’t say whether Desai does not influence
me as her and mine fictions are oriented to two different worlds.
AMN: Which writers influence on your creative mind?
SS: In writing, I have been influenced by many of Western writers. How
could I utter one name? He may be Dostoevsky, he may be Kafka. He may be Joyce
and may be Proust. But are they my hero? I don’t think any one as idol. If any
one to consider as idol, he is Jagadish Mohanty. I got influenced by him in my
writing of earlier days. In 70’s he was a trend setter. Not only my self, but
all of my contemporaries had also been influenced by his theme, style and
language. But later, after my marriage, I find myself in a different sphere of
thinking and I chose my own style of thematic approach.
AMN: What do you think is a good novel and a good short story?
SS: The story or novel, which makes stunned and made readers reticent
for a long time, is certainly be a good fiction. In a good fiction, readers
should be able to identify the characters with them.
AMN: Is your writing an autobiographical account of your lives?
SS: Sometimes. Writing is a very
complicated process, especially in case of fiction. An author has to enter in
to the characters and same time he/she has to rise up from the characters so
that author could look on him. Sometimes a character follows the author,
Sometimes an author has to follow his/her characters. So, every fiction is a
kind of autobiography of an author and on the other hand it seems different. It
is difficult for a reader to say which one from author’s life has been included
and excluded, what had been made up, what not.
AMN: Some writers like quiet, others the noise of a coffee shop etc. Do
you listen to music or have noise around you when you write or do you need
silence as Anita Desai?
SS: I can’t write with so much noise or when I am not lonely. This is
an interesting fact that though I and Jagadish reside in a house, our writing
process and time are different. He can write even in coffee house ( his Sarala
Award won short stories collection Suna Ilishi was written in a restaurant).
But I can’t. I need silence. So I have chosen the afternoon time, when there is
no one in my home to interact me.
AMN: How your family helps in your writing, particularity my FB friend,
your husband Jagdishji Mohanty?
SS: Unlike to those traditional
women writers, I have been referred, as a frank-speaking and my husband has
never raised any complaints for that. He was my lover before my marriage and I
was using to write my feelings truly at that time and never either my father or
my lover argued with me for painting these feelings. After my marriage, in one
of my famous story “Rape” I painted his male dominated characters, but he did
not bar me to write this. As a writer, he has always remained by my side
whenever any controversy arises for my writings. Our relation is not like a
typical married couple of India. Our friendship some how similar to friendship
between Sartre and Simone. It is an
interesting fact that when I
was writing my novel
The Dark Abode , I didn’t attend our kitchen for few months and Jagadish managed all.
AMN: What are some of the unexpected and notable responses to your
fictional works?
SS: There were some interesting happenings with my story writings.
Gambhiri Ghar (The Dark Abode), the most controversial novel of mine was first
written in a story form and it was written for a special issue of an Oriya
periodicals. Before the publication of the short story it was rejected and I
was asked to submit another story in place of ‘The Dark Abode’. While inquiring
the reason of the rejection of my story, I was told that the editor would talk
to my husband. This comment of the chief editor made me irritated and I asked
the chief editor whether my husband has an authority over my writer self? The
patriarchy idea of the chief editor made me to transform the short story to a
novel.
Once I was also
insulted and forced to beg apology for writing the story Jalha (The Butcher) by
the staff council of my college. It was about the rape story where the victim
was an infant. The story was claimed as an obscene one and the matter was
referred to the Governing Body of the college to remove me from my service of
lectureship from the college.
For my story “Rape” I was criticized for using the word ‘fuck’ in my
story for several years. It was a story of admitting sexual desire of a woman
and it was intolerable for a patriarchal society to find a woman peaking about
her sexual desire. The story has a central idea whether a woman has no right
for sexual desire even if in her dream.
In my story ‘Agneyagiri’ (The Volcano), I have painted two types of
woman. One is a traditional one, submitting herself to husband, family and
society by losing her identity and another one as searching for her identity.
It is the story of two sisters, both
having from same family background but the ultimate way of their in the
air was different. My elder sister felt herself very impaired, thinking that
the story was meant for her. No one from my family took it easily. As a
feminist writer, from time to time, many people (both male and female)
certainly get hurt by my frankness. I think a writer is a challenge for the
society and also always has challenges from the society.
AMN: What has been your biggest surprise about writing?
SS: I wrote my novel Maha Yatra before visiting Kedarnath. Later I paid
a visit to that place and found every situation is perfectly according to my novel.
AMN: What do you think the future holds for a writer?
SS: Hopefully it will be better than it is now. I think literature
never dies. It was remained before invention of scripts and will remain after
obliteration of the present media of expressions. Without literature, people
would have no choice about seeing their lives.
AMN: What are you working on now? What can we expect soon?
SS: Just now I have completed a novel Dadan in Oriya and it has been
published recently. Now I am planning to write few more articles on feminine
discourse in English so that I could submit my manuscript to publisher very
shortly.
AMN: Lastly, do you have any advice for aspiring novelists and short
story writers of India?
SS: I'm not sure I would presume
to give advice, but here are some hints I tell myself: If writing is important
to you, read widely and voraciously and write less than you read. Don't plan on making a lot of money from your
writing and link your writings to the culture of your region, its real life,
its metaphors, and images. Another thing I want to remind that publishing a
book is not just writing, it is only a SADHANA.
That is my two cents.
AMN: Do you want to give any message to the readers?
SS: I am thankful for all the
readers who have taken the time to read my books and who have posted a review
or dropped me an email. I think it was
hard to continue writing without their support and love. When I started
blogging in 2006, I was a lot more unskilled. I had dreams in my eyes and
during the last five years I have become more accomplished. I have learned. I
have experienced what works and what doesn't. I have realised what is important
and what isn't. I have changed. These all happened as my readers remained with
me through out a long period and shared their ideas and comments with my
blogging. I expect their love and affinity for my writings in future.
AMN: Thanks Sarojiniji for talking about your passion for fictional
writing. All the best for your future literary endeavors.
SS: Thanking you too.
-Capt. Dr. Arvind Nawale
